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#4082 - 05/10/01 07:38 PM Re: SSI vs PADI
rstone Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/05/01
Posts: 104
Loc: Jacksonville, FL USA
Actually toothpickman that is wrong. All PADI Instructors use the same teaching guides, and we all have the same standards and procedures we must follow. We are all required to give the same information about diving and teach all the same skills, etc. If a instructor does not, he is violating PADI standards. Next time take a look at a PADI instructor manual before you preach about PADI :P

As for teaching style.. ummm let me think here.. are you telling me every teacher has the same style? last time i was in school everyone of my teachers were very different and taught very differently. Because people have different teaching styles doesnt mean they dont cover the same material.. speaking of which.. stores may have different material when NEW materials become available from PADI and it takes time for stores to get new materials in.

Of course the amount of money PADI has doesnt reflect how the student is trained.. that goes back to teaching style. Yes ive had excellent instructors and very bad instructors, but my point is that isnt PADIs fault its the instructors for not following standards or just having a very bad teaching style (ie: the instructor who hates his job), but you will find that with any agency.

[This message has been edited by rstone (edited 05-10-2001).]


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#4083 - 05/10/01 07:50 PM Re: SSI vs PADI
rstone Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/05/01
Posts: 104
Loc: Jacksonville, FL USA
And of course not to mention how the instructor was trained. Ive been to several PADI career development centers and they all have a different style and some are not as good as others. Just like some instructors are not as good as others. Isnt any profession like that??

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#4084 - 05/11/01 08:20 AM Re: SSI vs PADI
Toothpickman Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/08/01
Posts: 116
quote:
Originally posted by rstone:
Actually toothpickman that is wrong. All PADI Instructors use the same teaching guides, and we all have the same standards and procedures we must follow. We are all required to give the same information about diving and teach all the same skills, etc. If a instructor does not, he is violating PADI standards. Next time take a look at a PADI instructor manual before you preach about PADI :P
[This message has been edited by rstone (edited 05-10-2001).]


Well apparently there are a large number of PADI instructors around the world "violating" your "guides" they all teach the same "basic skills" I said that before for all diving schools, if you bothered to read my posts clearly, but the books and materials at the PADI stores/instructors that I have been were always different. I don't know if that is what PADI supports but it is happening, so don't get mad at me for an occurance that is out of my control :P


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#4085 - 05/12/01 09:25 AM Re: SSI vs PADI
Sleepingcat1 Offline
just got here

Registered: 05/12/01
Posts: 1
Loc: East Hartford,Ct. USA
quote:
Originally posted by scrappy:
I was wondering if there was a difference between SSI and PADI. If so what is the difference. Can anyone help me out with this.

I was trained by the SSI course and my wife was trained by PADI. Both courses cover the same material but, the instructors make all the difference. I had confidence in the training that I had,my wife,on the other hand was trained by a Lady that did not inspire her in the water.
Th e trainer that I had was a man, this,however, does not say thay Ladies aren't capable,just this woman who trained my wife had a style that she was not comfortable with.
My wife choose a woman believing that she would understand the hesitation of training and the classwork involved. Her instructor told me that I could sit and watch my wife go through her training,Icould not assist her in any way. I complied,but the instructor had me assist the other students in gearing up for the pool and keeping an eye on the other students while she focused on others problems. It seemed to me that this particular instructor sucked.
I would not hesitate to take an advanced class or speciality class from either gender as long as I had confidece that the instructor has their act together.
jim

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#4086 - 05/12/01 01:32 PM Re: SSI vs PADI
rstone Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/05/01
Posts: 104
Loc: Jacksonville, FL USA
Heres a little article i picked up about PADI.

It's no secret the C-card that gets dissed most is PADI's. "Most of the untrained, uncomfortable, unsafe divers on any boat are PADI divers" is a comment I've heard over and over.

So what about it? Are most of the unsafe divers PADI divers? In a word, yes. Most of the safe divers are PADI divers, too. The explanation is simple. By most estimates, PADI issues between one-half and two-thirds of all the C-cards in the U.S. each year. PADI gets the lion's share of criticism because it's the lion.

It probably gets more than its share. The Japanese have an expression that explains it: "The nail that sticks up gets hammered down." So just as the world loves to hammer Microsoft and IBM, so divers--some of them, at least--love to hammer PADI.


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#4087 - 05/12/01 01:35 PM Re: SSI vs PADI
rstone Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/05/01
Posts: 104
Loc: Jacksonville, FL USA
the rest of it..

Still, many divers harbor the sincere conviction that PADI's training standards are not as high as those of some other U.S. agencies. After exhaustive research, we could find no evidence of that. Yes, there are differences between agencies. Some teach skills PADI does not. PADI teaches skills others do not. All meet the same industry standard. After a dozen dives, the differences between what training agencies teach will be obliterated by what the ocean teaches.

But--and it's a big one--instructors do matter, as we have said many times. Good instructors do make safer divers. Despite what you may hear, good and bad instructors are found in about the same proportions in all agencies. In fact, good instructors likely belong to several agencies at once.

A few numbers may help put the matter to rest. From 1974 to 1987, PADI's share of annual certifications went up from about 25 percent to about 65 percent. In the same period, according to University of Rhode Island National Underwater Accident Data Center figures, fatalities per 100,000 dives went down from 12 to 4.5. There is no correlation between the kind of C-card you hold and your chances of an accident.


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#4088 - 05/13/01 02:38 PM Re: SSI vs PADI
SGHOWE Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/04/01
Posts: 81
Loc: Ashton, Maryland, USA
There is really no point to shopping for an instructor based only on the agency they teach for. Since these days it is extrememly easy to get an Instructor card for any of the major agencies it is in ones best interest to search a bit more carefully and find out an instructors true credentials. (or lack there of) Unfortunaley you have complete twits teaching scuba for every major agency. However on the other side of the coin there are rather good instructors that teach for every agency. It seems that most differences in the method of teaching SCUBA are based on the individual rather than the training agency. I can name a frightening amount of instructors in my area alone, some who have been teaching diving for a long time, who the thought of them having people's lives trusted to them scares me. You should talk to a potential instructor about their diving history: How long have they been teaching? What environment have they been teaching in? How do they ensure the safety of their students? Also a very important question to ask would be What sort of diving do they do on their personal time? (i.e. non-teaching dives) You would be surprised at the number of instructors out there who really don't do any diving outside of a teaching context. All of the instructors from my work are Trimix certified and do quite a good deal fo deep shipwreck dives during the course of each year for fun. Now it is certainly my opinion that someone who can deal with a 300-400ft. deep low visibility dive with current is going to be a lot more prepared for anything that a 60ft. deep lake can throw at them than someone who really doesn't dive outside of the context of teaching. (although it is very important to have experience with students.) All it takes is a little bit of inquizativeness to find your best bet for an instructor in your area.

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#4089 - 05/13/01 10:00 PM Re: SSI vs PADI
rstone Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/05/01
Posts: 104
Loc: Jacksonville, FL USA
Well alot of instructors work f/t (ie: i work 6 days a week) and dont usally have time for free time to dive for fun. Not to mention working at a dive shop isnt a job you get to get rich = you have to work alot to make a living. Personally i would like to have more free time to dive for fun but usally on my days off i like to relax at home.

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#4090 - 05/13/01 11:16 PM Re: SSI vs PADI
SGHOWE Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/04/01
Posts: 81
Loc: Ashton, Maryland, USA
The two main instrucors at my work also work full time.

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#4091 - 05/14/01 09:10 AM Re: SSI vs PADI
rstone Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/05/01
Posts: 104
Loc: Jacksonville, FL USA
Well its cool they have free time to dive for fun (you guys must not be very busy), i wouldnt say that is the norm though for most instructors. Like you said most instructors dont dive outside of the context of teaching (lack of time and money is usally a problem).

Then again i dont agree with you anyways that what a instructor does in his free time has anything to do with how good of a instructor he is anymore then a mechanic or stock broker or anyone else for that fact. I have seen experienced divers who make crappy instructors and less experienced divers who make great instructors and are naturals at it. Being a good instructor has nothing to do with if you can dive a 300' deco dive, in fact ive seen some of these experienced tech divers get killed because they have become complacent in there abilities and that is a accident waiting to happen. Tech divers have gone thru alot of work to get where they are and tech instructors even more so ( and i give them credit for that ), but knowing dive decompression theory, etc doesnt make you a good instructor and never will. Let me just stop a little misconception right now.. You could have the highest IQ and be the smartest person in the world and read all the books on diving and dive safety and be a tech diver who in his free time likes to do deep deco wreck dive, but all that doesnt make you a good instructor.

Being able to teach is a artform and some instructors can teach for all there lives and made 1000 dives and never get there and just never became 1 of those great instructors who are role models in the dive community and that people look up to and want to be like and there are others who get it right away because they are good at being able to inspire, educate effectively, are responsible by the book instructors who have a good sense of humor, apply all standards in all situations (including safety standards, convey there love for diving, are personable, and do what they do best. I know many instructors who have taught in a teaching context for most of there careers and have turned out to be excellent instructors who are excellent role models and looked up to in the dive community and developed excellent reputations and are respected in the dive community for there excellence in what they do.


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