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#2935 - 09/27/05 12:40 AM Support your local Dive Shop?
scubashep Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/15/05
Posts: 67
How much is truly too much. How much more should you pay to keep them going? Most of my equipment didn't come from my local dive shop. I seen this as a blessing to us both. I got my stuff and I can dive more due to prices but they get service fees and more classroom time out of me. I have caught poo for this from a couple people now. I will not repeat what I told them to do. My first example of support is I bought a UK light cannon for 250 at local shop when I have it for 195 or less online. Mine did come with batteries...that is what I have told myself to justify it. Duracell costs alot, a whole lot. I don't feel so bad when I am paying 140 for a Nitrox class and the book is 50 of the 140. The dude is making 90 bucks for me to answer a test.

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#2936 - 10/02/05 08:23 PM Re: Support your local Dive Shop?
elec Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 42
I admit life support I buy from a shop , But all other gear fins , mask , lights , ect I buy on line usually. I agree to buy fins for 140 from a shop when you can get em for 70 why the hell not buy online that other 70 bux goes towards another class anyway

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#2937 - 10/02/05 11:08 PM Re: Support your local Dive Shop?
scubashep Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/15/05
Posts: 67
At least I am not the only one...

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#2938 - 10/03/05 05:52 PM Re: Support your local Dive Shop?
BrianO Offline
veteran

Registered: 05/04/01
Posts: 289
Loc: Irvine
Even life support can be safely purchased via the internet. As long as it is from an authorized dealer and assembled by a tech that knows how the gear goes together and how it is used. Warranties are important as service parts are often covered during annuals that cna be performed by any local authorized service center. All gear purchased from any authorized dealer is serviceable at any authorized service center.

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#2939 - 10/11/05 11:16 AM Re: Support your local Dive Shop?
splash Offline
veteran

Registered: 05/02/04
Posts: 33
let's make this simple. Dive shops live and die from gear sales not classroom service, air or anything else. When you by off the internet you kill your local shop and the access to to training, air, service and good advice. Period.

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#2940 - 10/12/05 01:38 AM Re: Support your local Dive Shop?
scubashep Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/15/05
Posts: 67
I guess unless everyone else pays for the exotic trips and the gear from there it will fold up...However I see it a little different. They make alot more from classes than gear if they treat us right. I paid 140 bucks for a nitrox class. The manual, DVD, and dive tables were 40 bucks...like it cost that to print it. so 100 smackaroos for me to sit for 2 hours and watch a video and answer 25 questions. Then I do the dives which I pay to do also. So for one night they made 800 bucks for 2 hours of class time? Yep they did and good for them. Now when they try to sale me something for 2 times the price that I can find it somewhere else? I am all for keeping them alive but we have to get sane here.

I drive some of the most gas guzziling toys in the world but when I can drive 2 hours to another shop and beat the price and still come out ahead? Example #1 This past weekend I bought a spare air from Divers Supply which happens to be internet store but I drove to local branch while on my way to dive site. I paid 229.00 for my Spare Air(dive buddy for the day). Local shop that you wish for me to support has the exact same setup for 299.99. I saved 70 bucks by getting it there while on my way. Had I went for just that I would have only saved 40 due to gas prices. So would you rather make the money or not sale it at all? I offered to buy it for 250.00 and they said no. So end result I guess that the non local shop made 10-20 bucks from it. The local shop on the other hand made 0 but could have made the 10-20 and then some had they came down on the price. It took a whole 3 minutes for me to go in and come out with my new Spare Air and I can say 10 bucks for 3 miutes of time is not bad.

I know where you are going to go now and don't try it because I have done the homework on it. They both pay the same price for it and one doesn't get it cheaper for buying in bulk. They are the same cost to them no matter how many you buy. My wifes uncle is dive instrutor/shop owner and gave this up due to fact that he doesn't care if he sales to us or not, he only gives the truth. He could have got Spare Air for me cheaper but with shipping and time it was not going to work. The time was 2 days and that's insane shipping cost. I can get things at cost from him when I am willing to wait for them and pay the shipping. He actually will tell us places to find things cheaper than he can find them sometimes. Some things are better priced when sold in bulk.

Enough said,
Shep

[ 10-12-2005, 01:48 AM: Message edited by: scubashep ]

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#2941 - 10/14/05 09:58 AM Re: Support your local Dive Shop?
splash Offline
veteran

Registered: 05/02/04
Posts: 33
I can't tell you how wrong you are but I will. First pricing is based on volume with every vendor in the dive industry and it can be substantial. Secondly many of the online dealers are not authorized to sell the products as they are gray market products with no dealer warranty. Finally by far and I mean way by far product sales unless you are a resort is the money maker for any dive shop. They provide classes, trips air and everything else in order to sell gear. So I will tell you your friend is mistaken.

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#2942 - 10/16/05 01:23 PM Re: Support your local Dive Shop?
elec Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 42
yada yada yada , bring prices down we wont need to go elsewhere.I buy half my stuff at a shop other half online. and ya know what you shops don't care if its online or at a shop fact is even if a student buys gear from a LDS but NOT yours , you get pissy. lower your damn prices so us normal income ppl can enjoy diving also.

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#2943 - 10/20/05 07:11 AM Re: Support your local Dive Shop?
splash Offline
veteran

Registered: 05/02/04
Posts: 33
for your information local dive shop owners on average probably make less than your average income and put more hours then you ever would. typical response from someone with no knowledge of owning a business and collects a paycheck. Hope you can figure out how to hook a whip to your laptop to get your next airfill from your online store.

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#2944 - 10/22/05 09:56 AM Re: Support your local Dive Shop?
elec Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 42
typical responce to a money hungry schlebb, that refuses to bring a few bucks down, there is no need for prices to be that HIGH I bought my main gear from a shop and his prices were only 40 bucks higher than Leisure pro so you tell me why others like yours is hundreds more than that usually 50% higher prices. I go to scuba shops that have a sense of keeping returning customer. so if your one that seems to "need" to keep prices that much higher maybe you should close, maybe someone with alittle customer service and care will open it again. or maybe your one of these "weekend" shops that only are opened acouple days aweek as a hobby that feels you need to hike those prices up to get a return for closing so many days aweek

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#2945 - 10/22/05 02:35 PM Re: Support your local Dive Shop?
splash Offline
veteran

Registered: 05/02/04
Posts: 33
Like a said your a smuck who collects a pay check with no clue of what it's like to run a business.
This is like discussing physics witha 2 year old.

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#2946 - 10/22/05 03:27 PM Re: Support your local Dive Shop?
elec Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 42
every frikkin time someone mentiuons buying gear either online or at another shop cheaper who get on your soapbox and ya know what its pathetic. get it through your thick skull people aren't only gonna take your word for it anymore it's a new age , so either keep up with the age or shut up about other options ppl go to purchase equip. so you want ppl to pay double than what they need too and if a person cant afford that screw em? is that what you are saying? sure sounds it to me and you never answered what are ya a part time weekend fly by night shop that needs to increase price cause your only opened 14 hours a week? hey I bought my life saving gear from a shop just that the shop was only 40 bux more compared to leisure pro cant help it if you dont want ot have COMPETETIVE prices. so all of a sudden your no longer a monoply in your area get used to it its only getting better for the average consumer

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#2947 - 10/24/05 08:34 AM Re: Support your local Dive Shop?
splash Offline
veteran

Registered: 05/02/04
Posts: 33
First we are a PADI 5 star and one of the biggest in PA. If you don't get the fact that a thriving dive shop is the heart and soul of this sport you are not paying attention. Without the local shop which continously brings in new divers, promotes local diving, provides air, service, runs local fund raisers and cleanups all with very little profit unless they sell gear and no one I know who owns a shop is wealthy by any stretch. Online companies bring no new divers plus do none of the above. They simply thrive off the hard work of dive shops without all the other expense. Without new divers resorts go away ( see what happen after 9-11) vendors quit investing in new technology and opportunities to dive locally or afar drop dramatically. Nobody is asking you to pay double just don't use your walmart mentality in this busines because it will ruin the sport. Just a piece of advice, take some classes on running a small busines before you shoot your mouth off and make so many wrong conclusions.

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#2948 - 10/24/05 10:45 AM Re: Support your local Dive Shop?
BrianO Offline
veteran

Registered: 05/04/01
Posts: 289
Loc: Irvine
There are many different types of dive shops all over the world. Some specialize in training, some in travel, some in equipment sales and some in resort diving. Hats off to those who do it all. For the most part, niche markets are throughout the the consumer world, no matter what the product or service. The perception of value for the dollar is in the eye of the individual. More competitive pricing generally means more customers, more activities, more classes, and more new interest in the sport and It's associated activities. Most shop owners do what they do for the love of the sport and the desire to keep it alive, not the money. This is not the case in all instances. Unauthorized dealers pull the value out of the market place and consumers do not get the product as it was intended by the manufacturer. Unauthorized dealers usually do not have any professional level divers on staff for advice or suggestions. They usually do not teach classes, run trips, sponsor activities or even go diving. Warranties are not valid when an item is purchased from an unauthorized dealer. This means that, if there is an issue with the equipment, it must be returned ONLY to unauthorized dealer it was purchased from.

[ 10-24-2005, 11:33 AM: Message edited by: BrianO ]

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#2949 - 11/10/05 11:41 AM Re: Support your local Dive Shop?
elec Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 42
If you don't get the fact that a thriving dive shop is the heart and soul of this sport you are not paying attention. Without the local shop which continously brings in new divers, promotes local diving, provides air, service, runs local fund raisers and cleanups , SO because of all this you want us to pay double or more for the gear ya know what your full of it People there will always be the dive shop that take scare of you as I stated before I bought gear from repyable dive shops for the same or close price of leisure pro. so before you settle on buyiong gear for doublke the price even if you gotta drive a hour out of your way DO IT cause not all shops are like splash and they wont take advantage of increasing the prices that much if you have to increase that much you either arent open that often(part time shop) or you have very very little buisness all the shops that are thriving have very good prices and deals

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#2950 - 11/19/05 09:16 PM Re: Support your local Dive Shop?
radarlove100 Offline
avid diver

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 6
Loc: reseda,ca.
my piddlin 2 cents.I bought a reg. oceanic air xs2,and a veo180nx.Scuba.com matched leisurepros price,gave warrantys and great advice on installation.very happy with service.decided to buy a dive light at a local dive shop.A U.K D-4,69.95 plus tax.Online at scuba.com 41.95 plus tax and shipping.pretty close to even and now I know a dive shop owner.I agree shops do jack prices up but you have to know what your buying,how much it SHOULD cost and how much you're willing to pay.Factor in tax,shipping,and the possibilty you make a friend that can help you dive better.

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#2951 - 11/30/05 09:37 PM Re: Support your local Dive Shop?
born2dive Offline
veteran

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 36
Loc: Oklahoma City, OK
[QUOTE]Originally posted by scubashep:
[QB]I guess unless everyone else pays for the exotic trips and the gear from there it will fold up...However I see it a little different. They make alot more from classes than gear if they treat us right. I paid 140 bucks for a nitrox class. The manual, DVD, and dive tables were 40 bucks...like it cost that to print it. so 100 smackaroos for me to sit for 2 hours and watch a video and answer 25 questions. Then I do the dives which I pay to do also. So for one night they made 800 bucks for 2 hours of class time? Yep they did and good for them. Now when they try to sale me something for 2 times the price that I can find it somewhere else? /QUOTE]

How many times and in how many different ways does one have to be told there is no money in instruction? Instructors teach for the love of the sport period. Their expenses far outway any "profit" you may think you perceive.

Elec - it's divers like you that your local diveshop now hates to see. You always want everything for nothing. MAP (Minimal Advertised Pricing) is set by the manufacturers. Authorized dealers cannot drop their prices below this price or risk losing their dealership. BrianO is so right with what he says. [QUOTE]Unauthorized dealers pull the value out of the market place and consumers do not get the product as it was intended by the manufacturer. Unauthorized dealers usually do not have any professional level divers on staff for advice or suggestions. They usually do not teach classes, run trips, sponsor activities or even go diving. Warranties are not valid when an item is purchased from an unauthorized dealer. This means that, if there is an issue with the equipment, it must be returned ONLY to unauthorized dealer it was purchased from./QUOTE]

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#2952 - 12/06/05 03:41 PM Re: Support your local Dive Shop?
PA Skinny Offline
new diver

Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 2
Loc: Pennsylvania
I am going to put my two cents into this discussion. I am a newly certified open water diver. Because of the excellent (in my opinion) training I received by my instructor/dive shop owner, I was able to survive a real dive emergency on my third dive after certifiation. I didn't panic, and everything worked out OK. Yes, I paid a little more for my equipment, but I also received personalized service. The shop owner actually recommended a pair of fins he did not carry. I don't mind paying for this kind of help and advice.

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#2953 - 12/10/05 11:06 AM Re: Support your local Dive Shop?
NetDoc Offline
new diver

Registered: 12/10/05
Posts: 4
Loc: Altmonte Springs, Fl (Orlando ...
We get this question all of the time. Until they figure out how to give air fills over the internet, we will ALWAYS need local dive shops, but their prices are killing us!

In the long run, the savvy shop owner that wants to remain in industry will adapt. Many will follow the precedent set by many online dealers[/URL] and create their own cyber shops to appeal to many divers the world over.

[ 12-11-2005, 04:46 PM: Message edited by: BrianO ]

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#2954 - 12/10/05 11:46 PM Re: Support your local Dive Shop?
elec Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 42
I did buy all my large purchases bc regs computers the whole package from a LDS but his prices were the same as the lowest online shop so u tell me how is he still in buisness after 15 plus years owning this shop and still keep the prices at a affordable level y is it only certain shops complaining BECAUSE U want the monopoly u dont want a shop to beable to sell it that cheap cause that would mean they r setting a guide for others to follow lower prices mean less money in ur pocket I get it but screw u for hiking it up double or more I will send everyone i know to the lowest prices that I can keep up with these shops u keep saying oooo we need to keep it high to stay in buisness . well I know of a few shops that disproved that maybe ur service sux and ppl go elsewhere this shop is in Pa too and he is doing just frikkin fine

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#2955 - 12/10/05 11:58 PM Re: Support your local Dive Shop?
elec Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 42
Y cant u freaks get it in ur skull I bought my stuff from a authorized dealer LDS but diffrence is he dont rip ppl off by doubling prices as I said before no more than 40 bux higher than the lowest price i found on Leisure pro ITS STILL AUTHORIZED DEALER its still a local shop so wats ur problem cant stand knowing some shops realized that they can stay in buisness and still take care of their cosumers.
your keep saying same thing and i will too you do not need to hike prices that high I found several shops that are very nicely priced and they give classes and trips and everything else maybe you should think about serving people instead of only a certain income base. I know the shops i go to are doing fine and i dont pay double and yes he dont hound me if I can get the same mask cheaper he dont make ya feel like a dik either he knows I still buy majority and classes and trips and services from hi.
You don't care if they buy 0 rings from online or another shop u want everything I met a few shop owners like you and i refuse to even give them my tiume for classes

PPL you don't have to settle for what your local dive shop has to say travel a hour out of your way so what. go elsewhere look around I already went 3 hours round trip just cause the local shop was like these guys here.even 680 for a sunnto pro back cobra plus 30 bux in gas is better then 1100 bux anyway you slice it Also if they are a authorized dealer and service dept they cant refuse to work on it. that is what these guys are griping about u buy it cheaper (rwether its a dealer or web) they dont want to service it if it wasnt purchased by them. I can get on a soap box too guys.
ur spending thousands of dolars on equipment and thousands on classes and trips y not add a few bux to gas and get it at a reasonable price

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#2956 - 12/11/05 12:08 AM Re: Support your local Dive Shop?
elec Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 42
o comon just read that about teach for the love of teaching, ppl how many of you went to a class supposed to be 3 days of 4 hours and say 3 days of 2 hour pool session and u are out of class within 40 mineuts not 4 hours and ur pool session is a hour not 2 , but this is cause they love it so much , u pay them and they take shortcutsive been to padi ssi naui classes most are all the same. a few ur there for the time they say but not many. Y is that my son took open water recently his 16-20 hours of class time ended up like 4 hours all together please explain this to me

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#2957 - 12/11/05 12:25 AM Re: Support your local Dive Shop?
elec Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 42
sorry about my ranting but briano brought up a good point , about bringing in new ppl to the sport. well a person w a limited income and haves himself and 3 family members diving don't have the option just to buy a 1100 computer from u just because u say to or because u happen to be within my city limits if i can get the same pc for 680 w all the warrenties and instruction than u why the hell shouldnt I (or anyone esle )do that. right now my closest refill is 40 minuets away so ya know what I have no problems with adding 20 min to that drive. you want more pppl to come and learn to dive. but I'll be honest when i first started it took me awhile to actully do it cause of shops like these guys and the highest prices they can charge until I found that u can purchase this stuff safely online and once I learned where more shops are located I was able to "SHOP" for the best quality price and customer service I wanted. but as i said I was afraid to join at first due to the prices and shop owners saying nah u dont want the 300 dollar reg u want this 500 and u need this and this but that 500 bc isnt good for "you " u need this 800 tech harness.but i know maybe u are like these shops that say "if you need to ask a price , Its too much for you" well I have a wife and 2 kids that dive and we dont "ONLY" dive so we cant spend every cent of disposable incomne to the types of shops that want u to spend more more more.
I got trained at a shop I asked about equipment he always wentto the next product to at least 300 bux more thna i was lookin at, I was inretail before i managed shops too I know the tricks if they are lookin at 300 dollar reg they can afford 450 but u know some ppl can afford that but wont pay it.

bottom line is alot more ppl are coming this way for the sport and that should be good for you but instead of baggering and warning them to buy your more expensive stuff y don't you try to take the hint from these other shops and appeal to them and their wallets. we need you yeah ok i buy that BUT you need us too , if us as consumers weren't here u wouldnt have anyone to sell too.

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#2958 - 12/11/05 11:44 AM Re: Support your local Dive Shop?
Tanker1 Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/29/03
Posts: 66
Loc: Virginia
I've been in this sport for darn near 30 years. Started in the Navy. Been in many many shops all over this country. Free Interprise is a simple concept. Get as much as you can when you can. That's buisness people and that will neven change. Don't like the price. Haggle. Don't like the answer you get? Take your buisness some where else. I can't think of a single shop where I've been that haggleing didn't leave me walking out with the feeling that I had gotten a pretty good deal. Speak up and voice your openion where it matters, in the shop. I know several shop owners very well. Most of them are my dive buddies. They are not rich by any means and a lot of the time they just barely scrape by. Negotiate with these owners and most of the time you will walk away fair price paid for services rendered. It also gives them a good insite as to what people are willing to pay. The consumer has the power to make things change. Bitching about it after the fact doesn't change a thing especially the fact that you just got slamed and YOU LET IT HAPPEN.

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#2959 - 12/11/05 05:06 PM Re: Support your local Dive Shop?
BrianO Offline
veteran

Registered: 05/04/01
Posts: 289
Loc: Irvine
Many excellent points brought up here.
The consumer is the one who is going to shape the market these days. The important thing to focus on is CHOICE. Variety and items in stock are the key. At Scuba.com, the customer is in charge and has the power of deciding on what equipment they ultimately get into the water with. It all comes with full warranties, is assembled by knowledgable instructors, and you have the choice of over 6000 items.

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#2960 - 12/29/05 08:38 AM Re: Support your local Dive Shop?
Radarjet Offline
new diver

Registered: 12/29/05
Posts: 3
Wow...there's alot of opinions on this issue. Here's my 2 pence worth. All be it, everything usually starts off at the local dive shop, certification, rental gear, etc. The local dive dive shop needs to be aware of the needs of new prospective client that has just walked into the door, and how are they going to retain that customer...period. With the over abundance of product information that is available and the means to purchase them should be an indicator to that shop owner what the playing field is. It is up to the shop owner to adapt to the buyer, not the other way around. I find it offensive, (and have in the past) to see business owners to lay responsibility of the consumer of their failing businesses...that makes no sense. I bought the bulk of my NEW gear online (regs, BCD, dive computer) I saved 50 to 60% off retail price, shipping included. Yes I do have warranty on all the equipment. I spent roughly about $1200 on the gear, I saved about $700. The local shop owner must realize that this the new market place, people will research everything and do anything to save what they can. I cannot understand the arguement put forward by the shop owner (Buy from me or I'll lose my business!) It is a fact that my gear will need professional servicing, am I to understand that the shop owner will decline to service my gear because I didn't buy from him?...is it getting that personal? MY BCD was $400 retail, I got it under $250. Is the shop owner upset with because I got a better price somewhere else?...heck he may have sold me if he could have been a bit more flexible....But I guess those who do their homework, and inform themselves will get blacklisted...is this in the small business operating manual? Conclusion: It's up to the local shop owner to adapt to the market place, and to stop making excuses attempt to dictate where I should buy my gear. If your business is hurting from bulk distributors, I suggest consultation with the customer retention chapter of the business manual. Obviously the bulk distibutor will not offer the one-on-one service like a local shop owner, however at what cost for adequate customer service? Is it worth $150 for the mark-up on just the BCD? or an extra $200 I saved on the regs? Surely $200 is a bit much for one yearly inspection of my regulators.

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