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#172 - 02/28/01 12:42 AM Re: new diver needs advice on equipment
Mac8 Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/20/01
Posts: 46
OneThreeSeven were you molested by a dive shop clerk when you were younger? Where does all this hatred for them come from? No I do not dive the bio fins and I wouldnt if you paid me. Never once have any of my dive gear purchases been based on cost, only on quality. All my gear I dive I based on their features and performance and I would not have a bit of trouble spending $80 or $200 or $2000 if the gear was worth it.

And as far as your statements that we are all out to screw over every coustomer that walks into the stores, then you must have some really piss poor dive shops and salesmen where you live. I have sold many customers low end gear because it was what suited their needs best. I have even told some people to go a different shop because we didnt carry what they wanted or needed. No one at the shop I work in has ever tried to screw our customers over because we value them. We give them options in all types of gear in all price ranges, explain how each one works differently, let them try all of it on and then leave the decision up to them as to which they will go for.


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#173 - 03/02/01 12:08 AM Re: new diver needs advice on equipment
rstone Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/05/01
Posts: 104
Loc: Jacksonville, FL USA
quote:
Originally posted by OneThreeSeven:
[b]Its nice to see you're keeping up your end of the bargain.

grow up.


I'll state catagoricaly right now that the dive shop monkey isn't any more knowledgeable about what her needs are than you are, when she's standing right in front of them.

the only person who lacks any knowledge here is YOU.


99% of shops are out to pocket your dollar. Note the dot on the end of that sentence.

most dive shops survive because they sell gear, not run classes, but you obviously know very little about running a dive shop or you would know it makes very little business sense to screw a customer over so they never come back.


Get on your back, and inflate your BC. Stick the reg in your mouth. That 500 pounds will last you a looooong time on the surface. Unless you suck air like a Sears Vacume, in which case it will last you a looong time. Come on out to Puget Sound, and I'll show you how real divers do it. I'll send you home with a souvenier North West Snorkle Keeper. A genuine 16 penny nail. Thats a good use for a snorkle. So keep it in your dive bag. Put the reg in your mouth. Solves all kinds of problems.

you know when i was a newbie i would of belived the BS above but let me tell you something. YOU must have little knowledge or experience diving in different conditions. First lets go over some basic facts about scuba diving and equipment.

1. its VERY bad to empty your tank of all its air. Its the pressure that keeps water from entering the tank and damaging it. If you suck on your reg until your tank is dead your either 1. a stupid diver, 2. Asking for trouble.

2. If your in bad conditions a snorkel might just be your best friend. If your low on air sure you can suck it dry but then your going to damage the tank if you suck it dry, granted most people rent tanks, but if you own one or your own you just threw money out the door. Which makes you a really stupid diver.

3. If you decided what the hell its not my tank and you run out of air while in bad conditions on a tow line waiting behind 5-6 other divers and you run out of air because you listen to some idiots advice about not wearing a snorkel and lay on your back, your F*CKED. When the seas are high and you have no snorkel and your tank is empty you wish you had been smart and had one.

4. Theres alot of things you can possibly do without like some idiots who are accidents waiting to happen, but remember having safety gear is never a dumb thing and having a safety ballon or whistle or yes even a snorkel when your NEED 1 is the smartest thing you can do. A octopus might seem annoying to wear, a dive computer might be more drag, etc etc, but its these things that make us SAFE divers. And a snorkel is nothing more then a safety device for divers, and any diver who dives in the ocean and doesnt have 1 is a accident waiting to happen. It might not happen tomorrow or 2 years from now, but it will happen someday.


[/B]



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#174 - 03/02/01 02:45 PM Re: new diver needs advice on equipment
Amy Offline
new diver

Registered: 03/02/01
Posts: 3
Loc: London ON, Canada
Hi Danielle: when I started diving I was still a student and couldn't afford very much. You may want to get some things new (like a snorkel and mask) but you can get great deals at end-of-season sales. Most scuba schools sell off their gear because they get such good deals on the new stuff (at least the place I got mine from did). Also I got some gear second hand. I paid less than $200 Cnd. for a two piece wet suit 8 mm. I also bought a hockey bag instead of a dive bag (just as much space but only $30 Cnd). I bought my gear little by little and rented whatever I didn't have. It doesn't match but the fish don't care so neither do I. Diving gear should be safe not fashionable. There are ways to get all gear for a good price. Also check the classified ads in your local paper. Some divers quit and sell an entire set of gear for a good price. Good luck with your course and SAFE diving.
Amy.


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#175 - 03/04/01 08:10 PM Re: new diver needs advice on equipment
SGHOWE Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/04/01
Posts: 81
Loc: Ashton, Maryland, USA
Onethreeseven, There are some dive stores that are out there to just take your money without regard to ones true needs, but that is the exception to the rule. I have had hundreds of customers coming in looking for fins and never once have i sold them split fins, i sell them scubapro jet fins. And when they are looking for a regulator I dont try to sell them the most expensive regulator like the all titanium atomic aquatics model, i usually reccommend the Scubapro Mk20/G250. This is not only my policy, but that of all of my co workers, and virtually everyone else who I am friends with in the dive industry. And one thing that I sincerely hope you do not reccommend is buying dive gear off the internet, although your attitude towards dive shops suggests that you very well may. Anybody who wants to argue this point with me is welcome to take a shot! While you may get a break on the price that local dive shops CANNOT AFFORD TO GIVE YOU AND STAY IN BUISNESS you will end up being inconvienced in the end. Not only will you have voided your manufacturers warranty which will start costing you money no more than one year after you buy the gear, but people who do this are KILLING the dive industry. When, and if things keep going like they have been this will happen, internet sales do put the majority of local dive shops out of buisness where will you get your gear serviced? And even more importantly where will you get your gas fills? If you think that a dive store can survive on fills and service alone you are sadly mistaken. And I'll give you this piece of the puzzle, the internet sales house who sold you the unwarrentied discount dive gear wont be able to help you with getting your tanks filled. This is just something to think about for everyone who is thinking about or who currently buys their gear off the internet. And when you do put us out of buisness, every single pissed off dive shop employee who has had to deal with too many disrespectful customers complaining about how they could get this regulator for cheaper off the net, will be laughing at you when you are trying to get your tanks filled or waiting 2 months for your regulator to come back for annual service at the factory, because you all brought it on your self.
Best Wishes,
Sean

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#176 - 03/20/01 12:21 PM Re: new diver needs advice on equipment
garypeck Offline
new diver

Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 2
Hi there, I would just like to say that Im using a 3mm glove for diving in 8 degree celcius in the UK and they work fine for me. I guess its what you want that really matters. I find that when using thick gloves, i lose sensitivity, although i must admit its very warm. However, the 3mm gloves gives me all the "feeling" in my fingers. They can be a bit cold when you're diving with them. So i guess, its what you really want at the end of the day, because you cannot have thin gloves and still want to keep warm in cold waters.

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#177 - 03/20/01 07:09 PM Re: new diver needs advice on equipment
decmike Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/03/01
Posts: 20
Loc: Schenectady, NY USA
Danielle,
I agree with Mac8...I am a new diver in my 5th class of 8 classes, and here is what I have to offer....
Buy the best you can, buy what FITS you and FEELS right for YOU! Make sure your MASK fits and does not leak - an over zealous salesman (not all) sold me a mask that didn't fit properly and I had to reinvest another $60 into a proper fitting mask.....I agree - NO ONE can recommend SQUAT for you until YOU try it on and see HOW it FITS YOU! All divers are differant in height, weight, facial features and that makes A LOT of differance in proper fitting gear! Try some masks on, try some booties on (get 5 or 6mm boots - you'll be amazed how cold you get in 1 hr in an indoor swimming pool that is even 75 degrees! Fins - try some on. Snorkels - maybe you won't use them much after certifying (I can't say at this point in MY career) but it nice to KNOW how to use one. Besides, a decent snorkel is only about $20-25! When you are spending $200, whats a mere $25 at that point? I spent $85 on my US Divers fins, $60 on my mask, $30 on my 6mm boots, $25 on my US Divers snorkel, $30 on my Henderson hood (required in NY where we dive), and a weight belt for $8 plus the cost of weights! Big whoppie! Since I have bought my own Mare's Expedition BC, a COMP knife $35, a compass $60, a slate $6, a Aqua Lung regulator & octo and a used Henderson 7mm wetsuit off of Ebay for $85! (OK, if someone PEED in it, I'll WASH it thouroughly with wetsuit soap!)
Anyway, point is - buy the best you can afford NOW and buy ONCE! Buy good brand name gear and it will last years - and, remember, your life may very well depend on the gear you buy NOW - so buy quality name brand gear! Read Rodale's Scuba Diving magazine - I found TONS of good info and TEST REPORTS on regulators and gear that helped me select my gear - they are online and you can access FREE reports. The most expensive gear does NOT always equate to being the best - go to a local dive shop and collect on their years of knowledge and experience - most of them are on the 'up-and-up' and are more than happy to help and provide good, honest informaton! Good luck! Sure, you are going to spend around $20-250 now, but, trust me, when you get all this gear on and get in that water on your 1st SCUBA tank and dive, the feeling of weightlessness will be addictive and you'll love it - just remember - its sacry to everyone at first, learning to clear flooded masks, learning to breath w/o your mask on but with the regulator in your mouth, but once you get those skills down pat, and you CAN and WILL, you're on your way to a sport thats a lot of fun! Good luck!


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#178 - 03/22/01 02:08 PM Re: new diver needs advice on equipment
Rebecca Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/06/00
Posts: 561
SGHOWE,

If the dive shop clerk put me into "jet fins" when I first bought my gear I am sure I wouldn't be diving today. Those fins KILL ME. Just because they are good for one person dosent mean they are good for all. Same goes for the regulator. What is wrong with the titanium regulator? Won't work as good? Im not saying "everyone" needs a titanium regulator but not everyone needs to drive Porshe either and people do! Sure the Ford would probablly do them just fine, why sell them the Porshe?


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#179 - 03/22/01 03:06 PM Re: new diver needs advice on equipment
SGHOWE Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/04/01
Posts: 81
Loc: Ashton, Maryland, USA
Rebecca,
When I reccommend people jet fins I am going on the fact that the vast majority of people who I have put them in are extremely pleased. It of course is very possible that someone would not like these particular fins, but I have seen far more people who disliked split fins and various other paddle style fins than I have who disliked the jet fins. The only way for someone to be absolutely sure what they like is to try it. And to criticize me for reccommending a certain stlye of fin just because you dont like it makes no sense. I personally think that split fins are overpriced trash, but if you like them I can see why you would reccommend them to your customers. As for the titanium regulator, there is nothing wrong with it except that it costs $1400. I think Atomic Aquatics makes a fantastic regulator...in fact I dive with one of their semi-titanium models sometimes. And that one retails for only $630. The performance is EXACTLY the same as the model that is over twice the price. The only advantages of the all titanium model is that it allows you to be lazy about rinsing and maintaing your equipment and that it is slightly lighter. Now I personally think that I would rather save that $700 and put it towards something a bit more functional. If someone wants to spend that kind of money I cant stop them, but i do like to let people know what they are spending their money on, which in the case of all titanium regulators isn't worth it in my opinion. I reccommend the Scubapro Mk20/G250 because it is a very high performance regulator which has shown itsself to be very reliable. If that isn't a good enough reason I dont know what is. Contrary to popular opinion not everyone in the world is out to screw their fellow person over for a buck. And just for those who care the Scubapro was designed by the same guys who designed the atomic regulators. The Ford vs. Porsche analogy is completely irrelevant as well. You see, there is a difference in performance between a Ford and a Porsche. Also a Ford truck or economy car is designed for a quite different purpose (well, as different as they can be and still be cars) than a porsche 911. In the case of Atomic Aquatics regulators. There is NO DIFFERENCE IN PERFORMANCE between the all titanium and the semi titanium models. I just try to give my customers the information they need to make an educated purchase. Well, I am rambling so I am going to wrap this up. Rebecca, you keep selling people what you think is good for them, and I will keep selling people what I think will be best for them. Neither of our opinions on the matter is more important than oneanothers. You aren't going to convince me to stop selling people jet fins becuase I think they are better than anything else made, and I wont try to stop you from selling people what ever you think works.
Take Care and Safe Diving,
Sean

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#180 - 03/24/01 05:38 AM Re: new diver needs advice on equipment
decmike Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/03/01
Posts: 20
Loc: Schenectady, NY USA
SGHOWE,
Enough said! There should be more salespeople like you sout there - and, I have found, 90% of them ARE pretty fair, and honestly concerned that a diver IS getting good value AND buying good gear. A prime example of this is a situation that was occurring locally for yrs. A fellow in the 20's that was an avid cave diver had been constantly 'nagged' at by my dive shop to get his CAVE DIVING CERT and NOT rely on his OW Cert for cave diving. The guy laughed it off for years - just last week, one of his 'students' who had taken the OW course but was NOT certed in OW NOR cave diving - died when his Pony bottle ran dry while he was wedged in a passage. Point? There ARE dive shops out there who DO CARE and are NOT after YOUR money. ENOUGH SAID!

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#181 - 03/24/01 07:50 PM Re: new diver needs advice on equipment
bpadivers Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/19/01
Posts: 88
Loc: Roswell, NM
My gosh,
All the hostility. Rent some stuff, try different things see what you like. Personally I got the SCUBAPRO twin jet fins, and love them. Be careful though, they are wide and u may hit them together. Ignore those who are know it alls and hostile. Everyone has different fits, and needs with gear. Comfort is most important.


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